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A place to discuss about The Protectors mod for Warlords Battlecry 3. Visit http://the-protectors.webs.com for more info.
 
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 Revert demons?

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HiBreek
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HiBreek

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Join date : 2015-08-13

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PostSubject: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeThu May 20, 2021 10:22 am

Since the instant spawn forces them to be balanced by insane costs, can we revert it and think of something else to make them unique?
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Joe the Bartender
Keeper of Balance
Keeper of Balance
Joe the Bartender

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Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : The Candlekeep Inn

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PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 9:03 am

They will have normal production times again in 0.9.0.
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HiBreek
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HiBreek

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Join date : 2015-08-13

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PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 10:51 am

Joe the Bartender wrote:
They will have normal production times again in 0.9.0.

And I assume it implies normal production costs.

While that's good do you have any tips to spare on how one could make this edit themselves? There's some things I'd like to tweak to fit home rules for LAN games.

And also, could customization of rules be a thing in the future? I appreciate the tower minimum distance a lot more than tower limit, but still feel like it's too big on small maps and have no clue why the dragon limit is a thing.

While I'm on a suggestion roll, PLEASE bring back the ability to add specific items in maps in the editor, I'd like to use items and test builds on heroes without having to grind the rng loot from shops and enemy heroes for months.

I'd even bring it a step further and let people create their heroes with the items they want and level they want, disable them for campaigns if you must and just let them have fun in LANs or skirmishes.

Basically instead of trying to achieve balance which is a impossible task on a game with so many variables, faction/hero/items combos, let the players decide their balance instead? The skirmish menu got an overhaul with army points capping at 100, army limit being customizable and many other things and I think that's a good focus.

I didn't write all this before because I had just download 0.8.9 so now that I've played it some I have a lot more to say, but anyway what's up with permanent undying companions in campaign? While I understand the point of "if you don't like it don't use it", but I like the concept and it's hard to not break it in 3-4 missions since they level up like crazy and you get to spawn with 3 lvl50 ancient treants in a minute, steam-rolling every single mission from spawn

Things that don't deserve a whole paragraph:
1. Would be cool, if possible, feasible and not costly, to have some new models in the game made from scratch
2. The rare Hammer that requires 15 strength and magery perk, who is supposed to use that feasibly, maybe remove the magery requirement and make it a melee weapon with 2% chance to cast summon lighting on hit?
3. Custom maps from the editor seem to crash the game on loading attempt, haven't tried default maps, I'd bug test it but it bricks my pc everytime so yeaa
4. Once a cursed item has been equipped once, could we know it's cursed the next time we find it?
5. Is experimentalist intentionally meant to nerf multiclassing mages? If not, it needs fixing that if you want to use more than a single spell you miss on 35 ritual levels
6. In order to level up your stars in the hero stats about enemies slain you need to commit mass genocide, I had 5-6 stars in mostly everything but 2 in enemies slain
7. Also apparently I killed 4 titans during the campaign but never seen one? Is something coded as titan or something
8. The wood elf perk where you make mines go boom for 3 treants and 3 unicorns is op as fuck, just destroy your own mines and steam roll the enemy
9. What if you needed a wisp to give life to a treant and an ancient wisp to give life to an ancient treant, dunno how it would work but it'd be cool
10. A limit on resource generating buildings, or a limit to how much they can provide?
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Joe the Bartender
Keeper of Balance
Keeper of Balance
Joe the Bartender

Posts : 495
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : The Candlekeep Inn

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PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeTue May 25, 2021 9:32 am

HiBreek wrote:
While that's good do you have any tips to spare on how one could make this edit themselves? There's some things I'd like to tweak to fit home rules for LAN games.
Sure. First, you'll need the unit editor which can be found on the wiki over here https://etheria.fandom.com/wiki/Tool_Downloads . Then, put the unit editor in the same folder as TPC (or if WBC3 is installed, in that folder). If placed in the main TPC folder, go into English and then find Items.xcr and rename it. Run the unit editor and use the army editor to go into TPC/Assets/Sides/Daemons.xcr and open that. Perform any edits you like, and then after you're finished, save the XCR, close the unit editor and revert Items.xcr to its original name. That should be it! Smile

HiBreek wrote:
And also, could customization of rules be a thing in the future? I appreciate the tower minimum distance a lot more than tower limit, but still feel like it's too big on small maps and have no clue why the dragon limit is a thing.
We'll try to have flexible rules when we can. Also, you'll be pleased to hear that the dragon limit has been removed in 0.9.0.

HiBreek wrote:
While I'm on a suggestion roll, PLEASE bring back the ability to add specific items in maps in the editor, I'd like to use items and test builds on heroes without having to grind the rng loot from shops and enemy heroes for months.
I can't comment on specific item placement, there is a chance that it may not return. It's comparatively low priority so the chances of us developing a solution in the following patch are slim (could for example have a special hero mode which allows them to have access to all items but they can't drop any in multiplayer). Maybe it can be looked into by 0.9.1?

HiBreek wrote:
I'd even bring it a step further and let people create their heroes with the items they want and level they want, disable them for campaigns if you must and just let them have fun in LANs or skirmishes.
I know temporary heroes don't have items, but will they suffice?

HiBreek wrote:
Basically instead of trying to achieve balance which is a impossible task on a game with so many variables, faction/hero/items combos, let the players decide their balance instead? The skirmish menu got an overhaul with army points capping at 100, army limit being customizable and many other things and I think that's a good focus.
I wrote this in a guide a couple years ago:
Joe the Bartender wrote:
TPC aims to correct the design flaws and imbalances of WBC without making the player resort to doing the work for the game by restricting parts of the game from themselves. In this sense, all available options must be viable, but not unintentionally imbalanced.

This doesn't mean that we won't allow many things to be customizable. In fact, map makers will have more control over the game than they've ever had in previous versions of TPC or in WBC1-3. What this does mean is that there are limits to the options people can have. Some design decisions are binary in nature, as in there is only one choice or another and it's not possible to switch between these two options. We'll try to be flexible where we can be, that's all we can promise.

HiBreek wrote:
what's up with permanent undying companions
I and many others have thought the same for years. I don't know when, but we will 100% be fixing the retinue system sometime in the future.

HiBreek wrote:
1. Would be cool, if possible, feasible and not costly, to have some new models in the game made from scratch
As the game gets more recolored units, models are becoming more and more needed. There's more in 0.9.0 than there ever was. Sadly, we don't have the ability to implement new models at this time (but are always eager for any help in this department).

HiBreek wrote:
2. The rare Hammer that requires 15 strength and magery perk, who is supposed to use that feasibly, maybe remove the magery requirement and make it a melee weapon with 2% chance to cast summon lighting on hit?
What's the name of this hammer?

HiBreek wrote:
3. Custom maps from the editor seem to crash the game on loading attempt, haven't tried default maps, I'd bug test it but it bricks my pc everytime so yeaa
Were these custom maps made in TPC?

HiBreek wrote:
4. Once a cursed item has been equipped once, could we know it's cursed the next time we find it?
That's a good idea.

HiBreek wrote:
5. Is experimentalist intentionally meant to nerf multiclassing mages? If not, it needs fixing that if you want to use more than a single spell you miss on 35 ritual levels
I never liked that perk due to its ability to screw over mages. Currently it doesn't do anything in 0.9.0. It's not been looked into yet, so there's no telling what will be done with it.

HiBreek wrote:
7. Also apparently I killed 4 titans during the campaign but never seen one? Is something coded as titan or something
Could it be a huge dragon?

HiBreek wrote:
8. The wood elf perk where you make mines go boom for 3 treants and 3 unicorns is op as fuck, just destroy your own mines and steam roll the enemy
This one's already on the list but nonetheless thanks for the report.

HiBreek wrote:
10. A limit on resource generating buildings, or a limit to how much they can provide?
They will definitely have some kind of limit by 0.9.0, if they even work the same way at all.

Feel free to ask any further questions or post any bug/balance reports, I'll be happy to help / I appreciate the feedback! Surprised
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HiBreek
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HiBreek

Posts : 4
Join date : 2015-08-13

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PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 05, 2021 6:29 am

Joe the Bartender wrote:
TPC aims to correct the design flaws and imbalances of WBC without making the player resort to doing the work for the game by restricting parts of the game from themselves. In this sense, all available options must be viable, but not unintentionally imbalanced.

Oh well it is what it is

Joe the Bartender wrote:
What's the name of this hammer?

Hammer of Morannin

Joe the Bartender wrote:
Were these custom maps made in TPC?

Ye, made in TPC 0.8.9b, loaded in 0.8.9b, in the span of half an hour. They get created, saved and work fine but attempting to load to edit further returns this message:
"Debug Assertion Failed!

Program C:\Program Files (x86)\The Protectors\The Protectors.exe
File D:\Microsoft Visual Studio\2017\Community\VC\Tools\MSVX\14.10.25017\include\vector
Line:1740

Expression: vector subscript out of range

For information on how your program can cause an assertion failure, see the Vi
sual C++ documentation on asserts.

(Press Retry to debug the application)"

Retry just closes the game after a dozen of seconds
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Joe the Bartender
Keeper of Balance
Keeper of Balance
Joe the Bartender

Posts : 495
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : The Candlekeep Inn

Revert demons? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 15, 2021 8:19 am

HiBreek wrote:
Hammer of Morannin
I had a feeling it would be this item. The Hammer of Morannin is supposed to be available only via a specific campaign level and is not supposed to be accessible anywhere else or outside of that level. In 0.8.9b, there's a bug where items like this will appear on dev heroes and in one or two other places besides. This has since been fixed in 0.9.0.

HiBreek wrote:
Ye, made in TPC 0.8.9b, loaded in 0.8.9b, in the span of half an hour. They get created, saved and work fine but attempting to load to edit further returns this message
I've asked Kharn about this, I'll pass on what he said:

Kharn wrote:
An invalid faction is getting saved to the map. I never looked into exactly what causes this but it got circumvented in 0.9 by having the faction cache check for a valid faction before trying to load any data from it. (And default to independent if no valid faction is found).

0.8.9b maps that suffer to this can be repaired by loading them into the 0.9 Editor and setting the race and faction of each side to a valid one (such as Knight and their first faction). So a way to avoid this issue from the start is to preset each side’s race to something other than random.

Hope this helps. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Revert demons?   Revert demons? I_icon_minitime

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