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 Undead Suggestions

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Join date : 2020-08-31

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PostSubject: Undead Suggestions   Undead Suggestions I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 31, 2020 11:09 am

Recently got back into playing Warlords Battlecry 3 and was really excited when I found out about his mod since a 4th game is never happening lol. First off, if you're one of the developers reading this, I'd like to say thanks for all of your hard work you've put into this mod it really shows and would like to share some of my thoughts for my favorite race:

The undead are my favorite race to play by far but trying them in the Protectors just feels like a let down. Some of the nerfs seem reasonable but others could definitely use some looking at/ possibly buffing, I also exclusively play single player so maybe it's different against human opponents, but here are some of my thoughts:

Wraiths, Shadows (& to some extent the guardian skulls): Because of the changes to flyers being available from the Keep lv.1 and the tendency of the AI to build tons of whatever their basic flyer is and the fact that these flyers can now attack "floating" units, these units are almost pointless to build/ morph into/ since they end up getting demolished by the AI's mass of basic flyers even though that is what they are suppose to defend against.
Suggested fix:- have cultist and liche available sooner that keep lv 4/5 to give the undead a grounded ranged flying defender or remove the ability for most basic flyers to decimate floating units; Make the guardian skull not float/ remove the guardian skull for a skeleton to skeletal archer morph which could be the basis for a ranged upgrade line vs the melee upgrade line for the wraith.
For Example:
skeleton-> wraith -> dread knight -> doom knight
skeleton-> s archer-> cultist -> liche
The Altar of Shadows: Since the removal of the mana boosting research this building has literally become worthless to build more than one of, and it is really sad to have a building that can't build anything.
Suggested fix: if the boost to mana for heroes was too good why not just make it a boost to non-hero units mana regen? The liche take ages to get to the 100 mana needed to cast raise skeletons now, so a research way to boost that would be nice. If not that then perhaps some economy based researches like boosts to army limit or moral which would fit with the "undead horde/ puppet master" theme. At minimum I think it should provide +3 instead of the standard +2 towards your army limit which then would make it slightly more attractive to mass build instead of other buildings.  

Unit Size/ Food system: kinda makes no sense, how can the undead starve? The new system also really penalizes you for trying improve your army into doom knights/ liches since they are +4/+2 army points its really hard to get a decent amount of your good units. Then there are vampires why in the world do they cost 5 army points? They are a rather poor general that makes 4 bats every few minutes and seem to get killed by regular infantry even with their barely noticeable life drain. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but why do they cost so much army point wise? It also sucks since Liches are now 2x they can't go in towers anymore.
Suggested Fix: Have liches go back down to 1x and lower doom knights to x2 which seems reasonable or like the suggestion about the Altar of shadows give the undead some-kind of army limit buffing research. Or maybe unit/army point cost reducing research to make them more unique and feel like a "horde" of undead.  

Cultist/ Liche: I understand and like the new addition of the cultist as the bridge between wraith-> cultist -> liche (they were way too cheap/ easy to get too in vanilla) but it makes no sense for them to be gotten so late into the game now, cultist at keep 4, liche at 5 feels really slow since getting from keep lv 4 to 5 is a ton of resources.
Suggested Fix: Have cultist and liche available at lv 4 but have liche blocked off by a research in the black library maybe something like "phylactery" or "dark ritual" to allow them to be morphed into. (could also be made cheaper by the Licheguard faction making it a more appealing faction) Or make cultist avaiable at lv3 (since that is when most other races get their mage) with the Altar of Shadow and liche at 4 with the black library like in vanilla.

Morph healing:
The undead have basically no regeneration even at night so loosing this makes the resource investment of morphing anything other than fully healed units not worth it, and morphing mid battle to heal not a thing which really sucks.
Suggested Fix: Have morph healing be a research available at the altar of shadow/ black library maybe called " grave restoration" or "dark revival" or Probably fairly more complicated but have the resource cost to morph be proportional to the health that they have remaining making it worth it and possibly a better investment if you can keep them alive long enough to heal at night.

Licheguard of Zhur/ Possibly bug: I found it very odd that the faction that seems to be all about Liches and magic can't access the spell researches for necro/ chrono in the black library since the spell research requires the regular keep but the faction gets a differently named keep, is that intentional? Also since mana regenerates so slowly without the research that the undead use to get the extra spells that the cultist and liche get seem a lot less useful since they already have other things to do with their mana.
Suggested Fix: Let the Licheguard get spell research too?
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Joe the Bartender
Keeper of Balance
Keeper of Balance
Joe the Bartender

Posts : 498
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : The Candlekeep Inn

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PostSubject: Re: Undead Suggestions   Undead Suggestions I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 19, 2020 9:46 am

Thanks for the feedback, it is appreciated! The Undead race and the game's balance in general has already been overhauled in the next patch and these issues no longer apply. They are much better designed, more balanced and are a lot more fun the play now.

Ryuu1011 likes this post

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