[FIXED] 0.8.4 Sounds

I just want to say that, in terms of game-play, 0.8.4 is the best thing it happens so far. I love new items, skills, unlocked units, animations, descriptions, no critical bugs so far and so on.


About the new modular music, it is exactly as I wanted to be (except “ExtraHeroDies”, that somehow loses quality in-game and scratches, even in solo mode). But I can only give a 7 in 20 for reworked sounds (crushing my brains and skull against the wall ). They all need re-leveling once and for all. At the time I did not know how to test them on my own, but since this was my fault, I will work it out properly for the future, and whenever I can, I will post here the complete XCR collection of sounds and voices in the way I actually wished to be heard by you all.

Thank you zeto. In my opinion, the SFX experience has improved A LOT, but I'm no expert.

Don’t worry, it’s just a couple of voices, and also need to set the death dragons properly (they are all mixed up). You can use it all when a new Full version comes out to save space.


I just have one question: There is always a micro lagging on reworked and new sounds. Is there any way to get around this? I mean, I can encrypt .wav, and it seems to go with no lag, but then you cannot preview those sounds on any XCR editor...

I do not feel these microlags on my machine, but if encryption decreases it, then I say you go for it. While we're at it, I propose a increase in volume of the heartbeat sounds; sometimes my hero is near death, bleeding for attention and I don't notice it at all!

Talking about sounds I think the Swamp Dragon still has one of its movement sounds as a selection sound .

Indeed, good point. AADGorder2 and AADGselect2 are the same. That happens in wbc3 as well... any ideas?

Sometimes in game the sound cuts out for units. I cannot hear the voices, nor my heartbeat or any such things. The music stays and so do certain sounds, like fire burning. Any ideas?

Alexhandr wrote:

Sometimes in game the sound cuts out for units. I cannot hear the voices, nor my heartbeat or any such things. The music stays and so do certain sounds, like fire burning. Any ideas?

Sound effects cut out when lamp posts are present on the screen. Everything is practically overridden with melting candle fire sounds.

Lamps? Where are lamps? I do not see any lamps. I was in a skirmish match, on a random map. This happened last night when I multiplayered with my fiancee too.

yes, there are lamps (mainly on campaign). that issue happens also with some ambient sounds (rivers, waves, birds and frogs) and new thunders. this is not an issue of gain and/or volume, it is a overlapping of sounds (there is nothing I can do on my own here).

I thought the issue with the lamps were related to their animations. If they do play a sound, then I've never heard it.

In which case, I propose to remove their sound (if any) simply to stop the other sound file cutting out.
If it's related to the animation, then how about making a version of the lamp that's not lit? This way we could drastically reduce the amount of animated lamps around the maps.

Also, if you feel like being really clever, Patrick, you could even make it so the two lamp features are switched when the day crosses night and back - having only lit lamps during night and standard non-lit ones during the day. Of course, this wont solve the loss of sound issue if it's related to their animation, but it would mean the issue would only crop up during the night, where one could pass it off as a feature. I.E: Units try to be quiet around the towns during night, either for being thoughtful for the sleeping villagers, or for scheming and plotting on burglary!

"Fire" is the Sfx that triggers this thing with lamps/candles. I strongly believe that the problem is with sounds as I think you will see: That occurred in previous versions of TPC also, but the sound was very low (candle I mean, I cannot say if wbc3 had this guy). But if you look carefully, then you will notice that this always happens with new ambient sounds (new/strange to wbc3 as I have posted before). The new introduced ambient sounds cause this (0.8.4 adds thunders to this problem) and none have animation (well, at least frogs, rivers, waves and birds). Example: Stay in a river with the correspondent ambient sound and voilá: no combat, voices, etc. sounds (the same with birds and waves and frogs). Create a map with blood coast that seems to activate always storming (I think) and no other sound is played rather than thunders.

the problem then is bigger: we need also to delete other sounds (if nothing else comes to mind) that can be implemented through the editor, but these only cause a local overlapping (and not on the entire map)

EDIT: also, "Fire" sound is used on salamanders walk and when buildings are on fire, so erasing will not be for the best

Hrhm. The beta campaign is very short, at least it was for me. You have a few missions to choose from. I did not see lamps anywhere. But maybe I'm just not very observant. My real qualm with this isn't unit sounds, I can live without them, it's not hearing the hero heartbeat. Losing that at random times is not pleasant.

I consider chapters and campaign the same thing, sorry: try prologue and the mission when you must kill a huge dragon that has those lamps.

The heartbeat thing will be done (sometime not very soon).

Well, I have some time now and this is what I could do sound-wise (just to see if any of you wants something else/more):
1-      Rebalance and equalize 0.8.4 sounds, organize them on one unique folder within its proper XCR (TPC Plague, TPC Knight, etc.). Also encrypt every new added sound.
2-      Create a new Swamp dragon select2, a new Baragorn’s select4 and order4. Update the new Huge Dragon voice set. Create a new Chaos Dragon Death sound and re-organize all dragons’ death sound.
3-      Solve the “sound blast” issue on my own with drastic eq (https://the-protectors.forumotion.com/t184-sound-blast-and-more).
4-      Increase the time-duration of “Fire”, since
a)      in late game this sound is the only thing you can hear. I believe it’s something with number of times that the file is played? I mean, let’s say, after1000 plays of “Fire”, game stops all SFx audio. So perhaps making some loop sounds bigger, like “Fire”, will solve the issue. Let’s us pray to Balora.
b)      considering lamps and like Kharn has said, and after some more consideration, I also think that erasing it’s the best thing to be done: you should turn all lamps with no sound at all. I will find a new “Lamp”.wav to be applied only with the editor (like frogs and such). This way, you will not have a global overridden of sounds, but only locally (well, if you put a million of “Lamp”.wav in the same spot, you will have a hard overridden, just like you did with “birds” In some missions of the Wood Elf Chapter). This also helps Kharn’s lamp animation suggestion, I guess.
5-      Heartbeat thing: I personally don’t think it’s necessary. But a little effort won’t hurt.
6-      Weather: “rains” are very low. I can find some “desert” and new ones as Joe suggested before (https://the-protectors.forumotion.com/t186-weather). Let me know.
7-      Songs: some TPC OST are scratching (mainly the intro ones, don’t know what happened there. EDIT: Does the game use any type of compression and/or limiter whatsoever? Any kind of Codec conversion from PCM 16bit (wav) or LAME (mp3) to whatever? the songs sound good outside the game... I'm afraid i cannot solve this on my own. Also: there is a AmbientJungle2 and a AmbientJungle2_SsrathiTheme. The first one should be simply erased, my fault once more). Perhaps I am the only one complaining about it, but I think that all other OST’s volume could be leveled with TPC OST. The reason is simple: 0.8.4 sounds were “balanced” with TPC OST only. I believe that some of the “old” OST were recorded by someone? That might explain the scrapping on some of them (If I could get my hands on the originals…).
8-      Considering this: https://the-protectors.forumotion.com/t188-help-us-create-a-2d-3d-original-introductory-animation-for-tpc. I spoke with 16 artists. The answer was unanimous: “I have bills to pay, so I will not work for free”. At least I tried… The song option with more simple visuals (screenshots, etc.) is still on however. Also, I am open for some more TPC OST unique songs (in this case, please post a link from youtube considering what you have in mind).
9-      About new Kharn and Joe’s unit’s voices (https://the-protectors.forumotion.com/t151-new-units-with-new-voices), the best thing is to organize it all on the proper XCR (current Kharn’s and future Joe’s). BTW, it will be nice to erase all the lagging associated with the animation of new units… Don’t know what you guys could do there… So, I’ll not touch Kharn’s voices XCR for now (encryption of wav is not obviously solving the lag problem).
10-   I tried to rework new system with STT once more, this time with an unique voice (fountain of life researches, character is falling, etc), but it seems I am doomed to fail here, since the outcome was poor once again. And I cannot ask someone to work for free on this once more. Sorry, it is up to you now.
11-   In my opinion, TPC will be pretty complete sound-wise, but anything else will be considered. Some final notes: Boats are a failed experiment so far. I will leave their sounds alone unless boats gain some importance in the game; I am still waiting for the Ssrathi female hero voice. But no guarantees; It will be nice to see new heroes voice set in a separated XCR, like kharn and joe’s for “organizational” reasons.

For existing units, please work with the xcrs that are already there. They are mostly organized by races anyway (PlaguelordsVoicesEn.xcr), but reorganizing those already existent would be a pain codewise.

If you wish to create more soundtracks, have a look at TPCOST.ini in the music folder. Some races have really few tracks (in number) compared to others (knights have 15, daemons 9 - and I had to stretch). My personal favorite are those reinterpretations of original songs (particularly wbc1). A playlist with almost all wbc1 songs can be found here, on my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NZnNV3cp3w&list=PL9CBA1A4926715557 (and the rest provided personally if you PM me - the actual originals, with instruments and notes separated and editable).

I do believe that the game has some internal conversion for tracks and sounds, but I don't know more. I'll look into it.

For the screenshots, I do know quite a few people that might be interested in drawing those for free (I myself could do some), but I'm holding on that for now, until the whole story is in order and we know exactly what we want, how and where we want it.

The rest sounds good to me. Hehe

Zetoo wrote:

3-      Solve the “sound blast” issue on my own with drastic eq (https://the-protectors.forumotion.com/t184-sound-blast-and-more).
4-      “Fire”

I guess these two are coding issues? I'd imagine they could only truly be solved that way anyway .

Zetoo wrote:

11-   Boats are a failed experiment so far.

I'd love to see boats in game someday... but I can imagine they're a bit of a nightmare, especially the Ferry (unit transport code, the boat moving to the shore when you click to garrison stuff on it etc).

I also noticed the volume for the Minotaur Tower's selection sound is currently very low - that sound will also need looking at .

Patrick_the_Winekiller wrote:

until the whole story is in order and we know exactly what we want, how and where we want it

I wouldn't mind helping out with that if wanted (whenever I have time anyway ).

Pat wrote:

For existing units, please work with the xcrs that are already there.”

Yes, yes of course. I mean, I just thought that since I am getting my hands dirty I could organize the Folders, for example: PlaguelordsVoicesEn.xcr will have just two folders, the original + TPC Plague. You know, if someone in the future touches/changes it, it will be very easy to handle I suppose. But if this is a problem for you, I simply replace the wav files keeping the folders. It was just a question of “fascistic bureaucracy”.

Pat wrote:

Some races have really few tracks (in number)

Yes. TPCOST was thought to have x min per race. I keep waking up with victory from WBC1 in my head… perhaps a new Epic for some races based on that? But... wait... do you have the build up of the songs?! if I'm getting that right, it's quite something... Could you send me one random some just to take a look at it? Just curious...

Joe wrote:

I guess these two are coding issues?

You may be correct, of course. But I simply erased the sub-low region (non audible for us, limited creatures) of the respective Sfx and it worked. No big boom on my ears. I suppose that saves you all some time for more interesting things, I believe. The only guy is still resisting is Dark elf RSB. But I really don’t think that is a huge problem. The problem of alleged codec conversion is more important, in my view (well, I am just guessing that something like that goes on).

Joe wrote:

I also noticed the volume for the Minotaur Tower's selection sound is currently very low

Any “area” in specific? I mean the first "miscellaneous" part, or the human scream (second part of it). Or simply, ALL of it?

Pretty much all of it doesn't sound loud enough.

Sure thing. They're in .sgt format and can only be opened with DirectMusic Producer (editing program), included in the zip file. Link expires in 7 days: http://we.tl/3t9Rq0FYAh

Screenshot:

ok. thanks. it seems a MIDI reader. So all WBC1 songs are in .sgt, but where did you get WBC1_intro (the choir intro)? I simply cannot reproduce it on my keyboard/guitar/bass... So strange pad over there making an unusual chord.

The WBC1B soundtrack is not on my original disk. I probably found it on the internet.

I think there may be a few other quiet sounds too like the Dancing Sword sounds and Death14 (Siege death).

Those were already on my list, but thanks anyway. Improving is not easy, takes effort and error… And the soundtrack you are using provides different Sfx judgment… with wbc3 soundtrack, for instance, you need very low for music and very high for Sfx…

Just for the record: All wbc2 voices were very different in terms of studio-production, in comparison to wbc1 that were simply professionally well done. Then with wbc3, the mixture with bad recordings (e.g. plague/ssrathi) with wbc2 and wbc1 is such a mess that simply some are too loud (e.g. evil warrior), others are too bass-low (e.g. golems), some have scrap/pics/cuts/electrical noise (a lot from wbc3), stupid harmonics (e.g. dancing sword), others have a terrible speech quality (Melkor) etc, etc. So, as you see, this will take a while. But we’ll have it before summer (hopefully). There is also the problem of inside conversion that’s screws everything I do (a little compression makes it inaudible like some new deathblows etc. etc.).

The list of XCR that I am not planning to rework is (in case someone wishes some kind of change):
1-BoatsVoicesEn.xcr (already worked in the past, but put aside since it’s a thing in discussion)
2-DarkDwarvesVoicesEn.xcr (Stone golem and bronze golem are very low – bass low I mean. But I’m afraid that, as done with dwarven runelord, the only thing to do is de-characterize it very much, turning it into an almost 30’s radio voice)
3-EmpireVoicesEn.xcr (for me it’s fine. Some magicians may concern you however?)
4-KharnVoicesEn.xcr (I will wait for night dragon, new heroes and Joe’s units)
5-PatCharactersVoicesEn.xcr (until some characters appear in TPC story)

Going back to the lamps - I finally got around to testing this out myself and yes - you guys are all correct! Sorry for doubting, but I have to see things for myself to believe them, it's just the way I am  

Anyway, so I join in and propose that lamps should NOT play any sounds at all. For starters, burning candles pretty much don't make sounds. And secondly, you can hardly hear it in game. This should be simple to solve - just modify the Lamp feature to not play the sound.

Quote :

. BTW, it will be nice to erase all the lagging associated with the animation of new units

There are two issues here, one of which also affects official units. This first one that can easily sort most out is to have the units "cached" properly, which is set through army.cfg (within System.xcr). The game initially only caches units if tagged and checked per race. So if a unit appears on a map which doesn't belong to any race in play, then the game has to "lag" and quickly cache that unit. A perfect example of this is place a Titan down in a map, say Lord Bane, but have all playing sides NOT Undead. Now, when you play that map, the game will lag when Lord Bane tries to move. I suppose you could experiment by having the game cache EVERY unit for every race. This would mean that no matter what race you would play or against, no unit would get missed and any surprises or guest appearances would already be covered. But of course, this would make the game load more to its cache every scenario played.

The second issue is if the different animations for a unit have different palettes. The only units I've modified that have multiple palettes are the updated frames for the mages. (The reason why they were messed up to begin with, was that the standard palette for them did not include the necessary colours for the attacking / death animations) I could easily supply all the frames for the mages with the same palette as I'm certain that it wont cause any colour loss to the standard frames, or at least not anything noticeable. If I had known about this one at the time, then I would have supplied all animations with the same palette when I updated them.