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 Balancing Races/Classes

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Shukka
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PostSubject: Balancing Races/Classes   Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:06 pm

Hello, I'm new around here and i wanted to make a few suggestions, hope i'm not too demanding Very Happy

First of all the new skill from Merchant and Thinker and Empire(race) called Tactician is a little too Overpowered, I mean why only those 3? it makes them really strong.(FEY MERCHANT IS OP and so are many others)

Second, i wanted to make some hybrid Undead Pyromancer like in Vanilla BUT Undead doesn't have necromancy as a spell LIKE VANILLA, I know i can go play in Vanilla but i like your mods items and all the work you guys put in everything in here it feels like a new game.

Third, Ritual 5% spell cast chance feels too overpowered to those that have it against those that don't, at least balance spell cast chance from INT.

Fourth, Some races have some abilities that are useless to some types of heroes ofcourse you can't make everyone happy but, why not put insead on every race to have a afinity to a school of magic, example: high elves: healing or ice magic / undead: necromancy deamon: pyro
- Vampirism is only melee and with a necromancer with a staff or any other ranged hero we can't life steal so it makes it useless why not Necromancy for undead that has vampirism in it for those that want it.

For now these are some of the problems i've had playing with your mod recently ty for reading all of this hope you do something about it, and thx Very Happy
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Balancing Races/Classes   Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:12 am

I feel obliged to respond to my twin dwarf brother. Very Happy

1. Tactician skill is already nerfed in version 0.8.8a. It was indeed too powerful.

2. Races lost their spell skills as they are now decided only on a class basis. This is to promote more variety type race-class.

3. We will take that into account. Do remark though that intelligence offers many other bonuses, such as mana and spell range.

4. As stated above, spell skills on race would reduce the class-race variety. As they are now, each race has skills that benefit both wizard type heroes and combat type (and even a mixture between the two - the so called hybrid builds). I can see your personal affinity to wizard heroes, but think of all the happy combat-type players who can now enjoy any-race builds.

5. On the vampirism subject, it was initially considered that it doesn't make much sense to suck life out of a living being without being in melee, which is why it does not work on ranged attacks. We will need to discuss though how does this affect the overall game balance.

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Joe the Bartender
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PostSubject: Re: Balancing Races/Classes   Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:14 pm

There's two Pats! Surprised

Shukka wrote:
Second, i wanted to make some hybrid Undead Pyromancer like in Vanilla
Flexible Skill slots may be something that happens in the future. When or if that does, we'll be able to make more unique spellcasters and hybrids. That's the dream anyway. scratch

Shukka wrote:
Third, Ritual 5% spell cast chance feels too overpowered to those that have it against those that don't, at least balance spell cast chance from INT.
Certain stats are OP and provide a little too much value. This will probably be addressed in either a possible 0.8.8b or 0.8.9.

Shukka wrote:
Fourth, Some races have some abilities that are useless to some types of heroes ofcourse you can't make everyone happy but, why not put insead on every race to have a afinity to a school of magic, example: high elves: healing or ice magic / undead: necromancy deamon: pyro
Racial magic spheres were busting hero class choices. They consistently created strong bias in hero choices and in some cases they created broken hero combos.

Shukka wrote:
Vampirism is only melee and with a necromancer with a staff or any other ranged hero we can't life steal so it makes it useless
Races are geared up for any type of hero role. Undead heroes are no longer restricted to spellcasters. Ranged vampirism was mostly a logic issue, though there may be some exploits too.
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Patrick_the_Winekiller
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PostSubject: Re: Balancing Races/Classes   Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:23 pm

Joe the Bartender wrote:
There's two Pats! Surprised
Oh, nevermind. Looks like i deleted the default avatar and the url defaulted to my dwarf avatar as a consequence. Everyone was the dwarf for a few days. Now fixed.

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Shukka
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PostSubject: Re: Balancing Races/Classes   Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:47 pm

I hope I can continue posting here without opening a new topic, or if you want me to do it just tell.

Thieves with steal resource(Thievery), I ended up with 9999 9999 9999 9999 in every resource in the first minutes of the game on a small map, hope this helps and thx again for showing interest in a great game.

*Also the skills that give you Wealth Gemcutting Quarry.. etc. give a little too much minerals compared to a normal mine and items on hero maybe a diminishing return effect (for EVERY skill in the game) would be nice, so that heroes do not get that strong in the laters stages and not  break the game, dunno just saying my oppinion Razz

1 stat point = 2 AP  / 1 skill point = 1 AP
2 AP > 1 INT = 3% spell cast + Give a little of everything and it's well balanced
2 AP > 2 Ritual = 10 % Spell cast, now scale that up per level and see heroes end up with rank 10, 12, 16 ,or even more, of spells and only those with ritual can get there that fast.
At least that was the reason for me thinking it is a little op, now tell me a good reason why would I put more than 25 35 points in INT cus you don't need that much, then dump the rest into ritual massively.
Maybe forcing the players back to have to spend forcefully 2 AP into a main stat every level would be of some help with not letting abusers take advantage of other skills like this one.
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Joe the Bartender
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PostSubject: Re: Balancing Races/Classes   Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:00 pm

I think you may be on to something. When I was balancing heroes in 0.8.8, I balanced many spells and abilities based on Level 20 heroes casting Level 3 spells, but was not particularly aware that it's very easy to hit approximately 70% casting chance on Level 4 spells (without items). That needs dialling back a bit, to Level 3. Essentially, this would be a global caster nerf, which is what we need right now as they are somewhat running rampant in the meta.
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